Whitney VerMeer holds many accalades in the hair industry and being the first woman to design a line of scissors is also one of those. Ergonomically crafted for smaller hads these scissors are archetypical for hair artist seeking the ultimate creative freedom from a tool. Whitney is known for her avant-garde editorial work, and titles such as Global Creative Lead and Platform artist. This Internationally acclaimed, multi-award winning artist talks her early years as a hairstylist, what it was like carving out a space for herself and the determination to thrive in a field she is passionate about. She discusses her neurodivergency, business practices, and what it’s been like as a queer person in the barbering/grooming space of the hair industry.

DETAILS:

• Whitney’s website: https://www.whitneyvermeer.com/by-wvm

• IG: https://www.instagram.com/whitneyvermeer/

• Mentions: Christine Schuster L’Oréal SVP of Education

Transcript:

Chantel (Host): Welcome to today's episode on Hair Stories with Chantel. This is a podcast for the evolving you for the new stylist coming Outta school and those looking to find industry insight and hope. You belong, and I'm glad you're here with us.

Today I'm speaking with Whitney Ver Meer. Whitney is the Masutani International platform artist, a creative director and a skilled artist with accolades from the hair industry. Good morning, Whitney. Thank you for your time today. I'm super excited to talk to you.

Whitney: Thank you so much for having me. I've been really excited about this and, I'm really excited to see where this goes, so I'm down to get into it.

Chantel (Host): First I wanted to ask how your morning was.

Whitney: You know what was actually pretty great I love Mondays. They're kind of just the day that I I kind of prepare for the week and I love, doing all the cleaning and just making sure everything's set up for success for a busy week. How was yours?

Chantel (Host): It was good. I got up and there's something about washing my face. Today I was like, wash your face, throw on, some pants and clothes and go for a really fast walk. Get a coffee out and leaving the house really refreshes me. 

Whitney: Oh, totally. Like getting the fresh air in the morning is so good for you.

Chantel (Host): yeah, it felt great. Let's see,

I think if you're comfortable, we could take it back to getting your certification and coming outta school, was it barbering or cosmetology? You did. 

Whitney: It was cosmetology.

Chantel (Host): Okay. And how, your thought process was mentally, what was going on for you and physically, like where were you coming outta school.

Whitney: Okay. That's such a great question. One thing that's interesting is I really never even considered doing hair. I never really thought about it. In fact, this is kind of embarrassing, but I didn't even learn how to curl my own hair until I was in hair school. I originally went to school for business and marketing and it wasn't, it just wasn't for me.

Although, I use a lot of that background, but I feel I learned more from experience versus being in like a traditional school setting. But it was my grandma who suggested that I went to hair school and I remember , The first day we got our kits, I was like, okay, this is pretty cool.

You know, I was like really excited. And getting out of hair school was really interesting because I was just kind of like, okay, I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with this because I went to school in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. So we were required to do 2100 hours and part of my cosmetology certification is also aesthetics and nails.

So I feel like I learned everything and they really hammered in the basics and I do feel like I got a really good education. But getting out of hair school is just like, okay, what services do I want to provide? Should I provide all of these? What should be my focus? And the first salon that I ever worked at I, I will say I really struggled with this, and this is something I, I don't know if I've really talked about to a lot of people. In hair school, you don't learn a lot about the business aspect of getting into a salon. And so I had come across this brand new salon that had just opened and it was in the outskirts of this new development and it was brand new and it seemed really cool and I reached out to the owner and ended up getting a job there, which was great.

And I was excited to kind of be part of the development of that salon because I also really enjoy business.. But the thing about that is with it being in the area that it was, and then also being new, they themselves didn't have a significantly large client base. So I would sit there and go days without taking clients, which was fine in regards to like paying my dues and working on other things and, cutting models and working on a mannequin.

However, I didn't realize until one day if I'm making 50% commission and I'm getting these really tiny checks, like I can't afford to live. And I kind of got curious about it and then I ended up calling the Department of Labor and found out that I was supposed to be at least making minimum wage for the hours that I was there that it wasn't just strictly a commission that they need to kick in, an hourly wage.

 I left that salon, but I mean, I, I did that for months and I put in so much time and energy it actually really hurt me because I got close with this woman that owned the salon and I got close with her family. So when I had approached her about it, she had told me that essentially I found out that she knew that she was supposed to be paying me.

And, 

I ended up settling with her. But like, I could have probably gone further with it, but I just didn't wanna affect her family because I did know them. It was a really rough start to the industry, and I look back and I'm like, wow, that happens all the time.

Stuff like that, you know?

Chantel (Host): Yeah, I'm, I'm glad you're talking about that. It was, it's definitely been a question for me when I came outta school was how do people survive with this pay that seems very, very low. And, again, the same mentality of well, we're paying our dues and we have to start, but if you're not in that situation to have a little bit of help and you are already taking care of yourself or needing to financially take care of yourself, that it's really tough.

And how people can take advantage of us a bit when we're so excited and we're just Excited to be in a place and , yeah, I'm doing this and not having those immediate like mentors and school definitely not covering modern things to expect in detail like that, like you said.

Whitney: Absolutely. It's, one of those things that can be really difficult because. Obviously as a creative, a lot of people that are super creative maybe aren't as business minded. And there are of course some people that are 50 50. And I consider myself maybe around , 50 50. I enjoy business, I enjoy the creative strategy behind being an artist and business development.

But there are those salon owners that, , they actually know better. Right? But then there's also the ones that, , I do give a little grace to cuz when you find out then you, you should do something better, right? But some of them just don't know and they've never researched, the back end.

 You could have someone that, and this happened to me as well, you could have a salon owner that's charging, commission employees a product charge because the salons that they worked at always did that while from state to state. It varies, but that's also sometimes not legal either. it's one of those things that you really have to do your due diligence. And I think sometimes companies, whether it's a product company or a salon owner, they might actually, take advantage of you being an artist and not doing your due diligence and wanting to know what the numbers mean on your check.

Chantel (Host): After that experience, did you assist somebody for a little bit or did you go straight into, behind the chair? At a a salon.

Whitney: I was fortunate enough to have my parents help me out a little bit during that time. I remember them saying, you need to go get a job this week. Or you're coming home. And there was no way in hell I was going back to small town Iowa to live because I moved in under graduation.

So if that tells you anything. But there was no way I was gonna go back. I haven't really told anybody this professionally, but I walked into like a Regis in a mall and was like, I need a job.

And I worked there for like three months until I found a salon that took me on as a commission employee. And then three months later they were like, you have to go booth rental. And I was like, okay, well I guess I'm just running my own business. Here we go. I mean, it's been an interesting ride for sure.

And then I worked as a generalist for, five years, moved up here and eventually started. Exclusively doing like barbering and short precision haircuts?

Chantel (Host): And that was behind the chair too.

Whitney: Yes.

Chantel (Host): into wow. So you did you have to figure out how to grow yourself or was the places you ended up busy enough that it was this steady progression.

Whitney: Oh, I had to completely learn how to do it on my own. In fact, the moment you were booth rent, because they used to have two commission spots open and then they just got rid of commission. So everyone was booth rental. So I mean, nobody was just gonna give you clients, you know what I mean?

You had to go and work for it. I remember going online, this is such a throwback and going on Vista Print and creating postcards. And then I would literally go door to door and hand those babies out trying to just drum up business and I'd be trying to give away free cuts just to try to get people in.

Yeah, I had to really, really hustle and it was really hard. But it's, it's again one of those things that's you just pivot, you know?

Chantel (Host): Yeah. You keep trying things until something works. Did you feel like any of those paper, paper making, did you feel like any of those handouts or the door knocks led to to clients? Or did you feel it was more word of mouth and getting your work out there and people seeing it that brought that client in?

Whitney: I mean, this is before Instagram and

stuff like that. I mean, this was like MySpace and a Facebook day. So I had a Facebook and I think I even had a website with little WordPress jam. And then eventually I got MailChimp and then I started sending out newsletters. then Getting people to subscribe to my mailing list. I really do feel like going out and meeting people did do a lot for me. I would go into businesses and I would meet people and shake their hand and try to make that connection. And I really do think that doing that personal meet and greet type thing is, I think it's really essential when you're a small local business.

Chantel (Host): How long do you feel it took you to feel , okay, I'm getting on my, I'm on my financial feet. I feel kind of steady being behind the chair on my own right now.

Whitney: So one thing that wa was difficult for me and I think it's really difficult for anyone, is actually just finding the right fit of , the culture there. It did take me, it was the last salon that I worked at before moving here to Minneapolis when I was in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, that I was like, okay, I really feel I'm doing well for myself.

I've got my own business, I'm making pretty decent money. And then of course, me being me, I was like, I think I'm gonna move. So then I had to go back to being a commission stylist again after. Mostly running my own business the whole time. That was very humbling. But it was also nice to have that security back because at the time that I was booth rental, I also did some spa services and I also did color.

So that overhead cost, was always there. And now, I just do haircuts, so my cost of service to make it happen is very low. At the time I would say I was five solid years before I think I felt really consistently and like good about the money I was making.

And then it was time for a new challenge, I guess.

Chantel (Host): Did you feel you had to create the space that felt like home, or did you get lucky and step into it?

Whitney: I honestly think that I've always been a little bit of a lone wolf. I've always kind of ran on my own. So I don't know if I've ever worked in a space that really felt as comfortable as I would've liked especially as I lived here and then I started working at some really great salons and worked as a cutting director and things of that sort.

The thing about it is, then you get to a certain point where, you know, if you're starting to get published in magazines and things like that, there are people at your salon that when they leave work, they don't think about hair anymore, which is so great. And sometimes I really envy that.

But for me, I was so passionate about it and it was kind of a situation where I felt I couldn't speak about it to anyone because I didn't want to, kind of be punished for it in a weird way, you know what I mean? Like with the salon culture. I will say that was really difficult for me.

It was kind of a lonely feeling, but I think that what made it really great was that I had such a curated client list, and those are the people that made me feel like I found my niche, my niche in the industry, but just also my client flow. I would've way rather been at my chair working than sitting in the break room.

I didn't feel I was missing out on anything in the back. So I think that's also experiencing that and then also just growing up in small town Iowa as a gay person, I think that is what made me kind of be a little bit of a lone wolf, but I feel very comfortable in that regard. But now I'm really focused on creating a culture where everyone has a pl like if you feel like you don't belong to a pack, you can be part of this pack.

And that's kind of what I'm focused on right now.

Chantel (Host): I like it.

Whitney: Thank 

Chantel (Host): You're still part of it. You don't have to be feeding into the environment or being anybody that's not yourself. Just to fit in. You fit in by being the unique stylist that you are. Is that, that's kind of what you're saying, which 

Whitney: Yeah. I don't know, differences are cool. I think we live in a time where it's like cool to be your own person and have your own thing going on and not get boxed in to only, even just to only find hair is as inspiration to do hair.

 It is rarely hair that inspires me. I'm always looking for inspiration, even if I'm like outside for a walk and I see something or architecture, art, or music, that's where I find inspiration from. So I don't really like to lock myself into that.

I don't wanna say community mindset, but when it's a really good culture, you can flourish. But if there's any bit of negativity, it can really hinder, your creativity and your workflow.

Chantel (Host): Yeah, it can be distracting

depending on our spirits too. I think I'm curious how you felt specifically being female and queer and trying to, may I say, do you identify as queer? 

Some 

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 

Chantel (Host): If that if you could see that affecting either your perception of it or other people's perception of it affecting how you were moving through the industry at all. Like just on a personal note, if it did or if it didn't, because I know some people don't have to deal with like they've never faced, they're I don't feel I've ever been 

Whitney: discriminated against and

Chantel (Host): Right, right. And then there's people that are really have these stories. And then there's some of us who don't know that we have, but we think we haven't, you know? I think that's my question. How it was for you? Because I know a lot of people are experiencing it and not talking about it.

And, and if we do somebody might be able to relate.

Whitney: I think that that's honestly one of the coolest questions I've ever been asked. I love, I just love, love talking about this kind of stuff, and I think like this visibility is so powerful right now. I will say when I was in hair school, I remember this woman wanted her haircut short, and then she used a derogatory term that I won't use, but she said, just don't make me look like an ex.

And I was just wow. You know, I was so stunned. And then another time when I was Booth rental this woman, I was cutting her hair and when I, said that I had a partner that was female, she was very much like, don't touch me.

 I mean, that was, I'm not gonna lie, that was like really scary, 

 Also when, even when I was in hair school, so I grew up in small town Iowa, it's not too far from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I showed up on my first day of hair school and of course I went through a year of college, I was a little bit older than some of the girls that were in my class.

And I was also old for my grade, like in high school. But there was a girl that I had played basketball against that knew of me and she was the lead of the student body and she went up to the girls in my class and said, know if I can use this word on here, a derogatory term that starts with a D. But she said, did you know that you have a in your class? And told everyone that I was gay. I mean I had a pretty terrible experience growing up, coming out because I mean, I didn't even know another gay person when I came out. I kind of felt , oh, I'm gonna start this new life over.

 I didn't know how it was gonna be with a bunch of girls, if they were gonna be catty and mean towards me. And then to find out that that was said I ended up going in the bathroom and crying and a teacher came in there and basically just told me to get over it.

Which is funny because I found out later on that she was also gay. And that really sucked. Then I won Naja and went back and taught a class and I called him out on it. So that was pretty awesome. I went there and I taught a class for free, but I was like, I'm gonna tell you guys about my experience here.

And it felt really good to do that because I do believe in accountability and it's kind of my way of making up for the times I didn't stand up for myself. I do think in some regards it's been actually really great for my business because I do cut a lot of male clients and also non-binary clients or trans clients and also some female clients as well.

I cut everybody. I always say I just cut short hair, but I find that especially with my straight cis men, that they feel very comfortable with me because there's no pressure there. You they're just , oh, it's like just one of the guys, you know? I love that they have that, ease of talking with me and they're all so supportive and it's actually interesting.

It's something that growing up I felt ashamed of, and now I think of it as a superpower. And I think that's part of my purpose and why I'm here is because as much as we've become so progressive as like a society, you know, over the last couple of years, the hair industry specifically, the barber industry is very far behind in regards to that.

 We're still like putting gender on haircuts, you know, it's kind of ridiculous. But I do feel that is something I'm very passionate about, is I want to continue to provide that visibility and , be like a good role model for people who are struggling with it or feel alone or anything of that nature.

Chantel (Host): I feel like I hear you saying that you still find yourself using the gender binary with certain clients perhaps who are, you know, older or ha haven't been exposed to, using different pro pronouns and why. But maybe ideally you would love to start. Showing that, haircuts are, this is short, and it's square and we, why we call it masculine, you know, it could be masculine without being,

Whitney: Male.

Chantel (Host): male.

Yeah. And you can have you know, it could be round, but it doesn't have to be, I don't know. I, this is my first time like trying to articulate this, that

just. 

Whitney: it, it is such an interesting conversation, isn't it? Because there's definitely, and this is obviously like I do consider myself like non-binary. I'm definitely probably a she/they is what I consider myself. But , it is a very interesting conversation to differentiate between masculine and feminine and how that's not necessarily a biological gender aspect, you know what I mean?

Because

I mean, those words are still relevant within it. And if anyone has any better ones, like, I'd love to hear I, I'm constantly wanting to learn and soak up all the information, but yeah, I have cis male clients that have feminine shapes. You know , it's just, it's really interesting in that regard playing with that too.

Chantel (Host): And sometimes it's just complimentary

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely.

Chantel (Host): face shape. Yeah. 

Whitney: Absolutely. It's, it's, that's always my number one thing, right. But then it's the finishing aspect of it.

Chantel (Host): I would love to just I was thinking like a YouTube little class on shapes and stepping outside of this is a man's haircut, this is a female haircut. And really talking compliments and what compliments your features and, or even if it's not complimentary, just how. You want to express yourself

Whitney: absolutely.

One 

Chantel (Host): I, feel That would be really fun.

Whitney: I experienced this with a really good friend and, and client of mine, and we became really good friends through this, but obviously if you get into theory stuff, there's a general idea of like what works with balance and proportion in regards to each individual's, face shape, bone structure, all that business.

But what was really amazing to experience was a new client that had not yet started testosterone. And to watch them and their bone structure change over time, but alter, alter the haircut along that journey with them was really, really cool. And I felt so honored to be a part of that , because at first I was trying to make, a more square shape to provide a more quote unquote masculine look.

Right? But then as time progressed I didn't have to make it as square and I could soften it a little bit more. It was really. Really kind of an amazing experience. I would say that was probably one of the most pivotal points in my career was, kind of understanding that, and also just watching their skin change and , how important hair products, are in regards to that.

Because they might start on your hair, but they live on your scalp,

you know, and if someone is going through their second puberty and they have, a hair product that's not water soluble, dripping down onto their face, I mean, it's gonna make it a whole worse problem than it would, you know, for someone who's not going through that as well.

Chantel (Host): Yeah. That's so cool.

Whitney: Yeah. It's something that I would love to do, a series on, I would love to work with someone and maybe even do a time lapse type thing,

you know, where people do 

that new picture every day for a year or something. I think that'd be really cool.

To be a part of that.

Chantel (Host): So you kind of already answered this next question but I'm gonna ask it , just to be clear. So I noticed that we both use she/they, they pronouns. And we both have rainbow flags and our social bios. Could you share, could you share what those identifiers represent for you and why that was something that you chose to include?

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I will say right before COVID hit, I've been working on this lifestyle brand and hair care is definitely part of it. But I really dove into this and I won't give too much away, but the entire line is very non-binary. Like gender's, not even a discussion.

And It's so interesting, I was so immersed in it. And then when I got to the end of it, I was preparing a deck to show a friend of mine that does marketing for brands and stuff like that. And I realized that the project all along was me. Because my whole life, I would say I've always been pretty gender fluid.

One thing about my parents is they never made me feel weird about shopping the boys section or anything like that. They were always so supportive in regards to the gender aspect. And I kind of realized, that's the way that I felt about myself. Through that process I think a lot of my brand people love to like, oh, you're a woman in a man's world, which I hate by the way,

 but Because I also don't work with men that are insecure and treat me that way.

But it's so interesting. I don't care if anybody wants to say she or woman do I feel it's the most accurate fitting for me? I think I'm just me and I don't really wanna put labels on myself so much in that regard. Cuz I think I'm just Whitney, but I don't mind women and she, and things of that sort because I think women are so badass and powerful and cool and I think that we are the future and I'm so honored to be amongst this badass group of people that are taking over the world that I'm like, hell yeah, call me that.

I don't care. But I also I wouldn't want somebody to be like, Hey, girl. I'd be , oh, please don't wear a ma'am. I would maybe die and sign a little bit, you know? But that's also because that makes me feel old. But yeah, I don't know. I just think it's also important, right?

I was like, I need to put that in my bio because I do think like that's important to share that because other people need to see it. I think people look at me and they're oh, you seem more feminine presenting, , so they just assume. But anyone that spends time with me think, would probably notice that I'm a little bit more gender fluid. So

that's kind 

Chantel (Host): it. Thank you for that.

Whitney: Yeah absolutely. I think it's so important to continue. I don't know what your feelings are about this, but also as someone who doesn't mind to be called they, I think that I also am not going to abandon women, I want to continue to push women forward alongside obviously queer people and non-binary individuals.

 I just think it's so important right now because things got really progressive there for a while, but then we're seeing this evolution of this, toxic masculinity kind of peek back in. I think it's super important to continue to be really supportive of women as well.

Because I also think like in regards to the barbering world, that might be an area that as a, a queer person, I probably have a little bit more acceptance in. I noticed that I see a lot of girls really go into , "oh, lady Barber" and all this kind of stuff , my pet peeve is seeing those super provocative, barber shops where the girls are wearing skimpy outfits.

First off I'm like, oh, hair slivers that looks so uncomfortable. But also it's , oh girl, don't do this. Don't do this. You don't have to, you could be super successful and have a full book and respected, and not have to do that cuz it can't feel good at the end of the day.

But if you feel empowered, by all means, go off. But it's, I just don't find it necessary.

Chantel (Host): Yeah, I feel there's some old patterns that are very, if we don't shake it up and stand for something, people are gonna perpetuate something that needs to slip away and evolve. I feel those patterns or those behaviors are part of something old because if you look at all of humanity and like Yeah, it's even like pronouns, right?

 This isn't new, but we are talking humanities, but we haven't just been here for, you know, a few 600 years. It's been like,

Whitney: Right. And I think it, probably just comes from the vast amount of information that we're constantly receiving. I was diagnosed with A D H D probably eight years ago, and nobody was here's what it is. And it's like, oh, it's because I am all over the place.

And no. There's so many little things that I had no idea, but I gotta be honest, I learned so much during, I don't have TikTok, but a lot of the content that I consume seems to be TikTok related. And wow. These people that are going on there and talking just professionals, but also people in their own experiences, it's like, oh my gosh.

 I had no idea that that was related to my ADHD now I don't have to feel bad about it anymore. I'm not alone,

Chantel (Host): right, and there's all 

Whitney: it's it's interesting.

Chantel (Host): Right. Do you get all the tips for Neurodivergency too? 

So it's, it's not just feeling like less alone, but you're oh, wow, there's hacks to this. I'm just speaking for myself. Like a lot of the anxiety comes from feeling I have to fix myself

without even being aware of that pattern of conform or fit in this box.

And then when I check my anxiety, I can have less anxiety if I'm just prepared to show up as my neurodivergent self.

Whitney: Absolutely. And to be celebrated for that, I think we're also living in a time now where it's cool to be weird or to be a nerd or to be neuro divergent. It's a superpower. You know what I mean? I think that. It's like we see each other in a room, and I actually was talking to one of my good friends about this.

She is on the spectrum and also has ADHD and she also is queer, non-binary. I told her this cuz she was talking to me about how she kind of, feels that pressure or I'm not good enough. And I told her, honestly, you have to remember that you can't speak butterfly language with Caterpillar people.

They, they're never gonna be able to fully understand it and , just take that pressure off yourself and save it for the people that see you.

Chantel (Host): Yeah. I love it.

Whitney: It's really cool to see people just take this stuff like more serious and , and I feel really fortunate to, be able to serve people during this time in life. Just the things that people share with me. I don't know if I would get the same depth before, you know? Do you feel like you got the same depth, like before from people before the pandemic?

Chantel (Host): It's less frequent that I, I'm able to go there, but when. I am like now, then the depth happens.

Whitney: Right,

Chantel (Host): Where before there was a lot of interaction happening, but it was very surface level 

and and now it's less, even coming out of it, still so much less of that interpersonal communication.

But then when it does happen, it is,

Whitney: So deep.

Chantel (Host): yeah. Yeah. Everyone's coming from a different level of survival, 

which Oh, we survived something and we're gonna say hello, but, and not start the conversation like, Hey, we're survivors 

Whitney: Oh, a hundred percent. During the pandemic, for a lot of people that were working from home or something in that nature, I think that getting their haircut was that first feeling of normalcy back in their life.

 It felt like they were kind of bringing their stuff with them and wanted to leave it with us. You have to protect your energy so much in that regard, but it's also an honor to be able to provide normalcy and comfort and safety. During such an uncertain time.

Chantel (Host): It's interesting you mentioned your ADHD and I totally had this question I'm more curious now how you keep your personal and professional life organized. 

Whitney: I'll

just laugh. 

Yeah, it's kind of one of those things that it's like people are like, oh, you need to separate them. And I will say I do make certain rules for myself I never bring my laptop into my bed. I won't take it out of my office. It stays in there because that's where my work is done and I don't want to bring that into my sleeping space that's supposed to be relaxing and, things of that sort. This would sound not healthy to like maybe the average person that's cutting a ton of clients every day and they need the separation. But for myself, I haven't taken new clients in probably at least eight years. I've had a set book of clients and my personal and professional life is all personal.

 And I like it that way because I'm so close with the people that I do see. I see them every three to six weeks, which is more often than I see my family or friends. But I honor that they truly are my friends and we have such a deep relationship. It's part of the reason why it would ever be hard for me to move. The idea of missing them sounds like going through so many breakups that I

just don't want to do.

But I do set rules for myself for the most part, I don't do any work texts or emails or anything after 8:00 PM it's, gotta be cut off. Cuz I just wanna unwind , and relax. I put everything on a calendar digitally, but then I also like to write stuff out.

 At the beginning of the week, I write all the days and then I put things I'm gonna do and I try to just kinda like schedule it in there. And one thing I started doing, cause sometimes I'd get so upset with myself and why didn't I get the things done on my list?

But like, I feel I got a lot done today. So what I do now is I actually go in and I write that stuff in there and cross it off cuz I don't need to be hard on myself that I didn't do enough today. I also make it a point when I'm with people that I care about, I don't sit on my phone.

I try to be in the moment and I spend a lot of time with my dog and she definitely is not down for me to be on any devices.

She will pout if I'm even on my computer, she'll lay across my feet and let me know and just how upset she is about it. Cuz she wants everything to be about her all the time. But I'd say it just kind of comes down to, like, for me personally, and this is something that I learned like through my L'Oreal background, is I can digitally put it into a calendar, but as someone with adhd, if I physically write it, I'm gonna remember it better. Cuz I can also, as an artist, I can also visualize it on my to-do list, if I'm in a different room.

 I think it's really important to hold yourself accountable. Then I also have a huge whiteboard that I keep in my office that is the bigger to-do list stuff; for progressing, and hitting my goals. Kind of the step by step and breaking ' em down.

And I just kind of keep those, and every once in a while look at 'em to just remind myself okay, am I working towards these things? Like, am I actively doing something to achieve these things on a daily basis? And that really helps me.

Chantel (Host): Did you start at llc as a hairstylist, is that something. Was that after the five years?

Whitney: So after I moved here, I, which is so interesting, I think about that, actually, you just made me think of this when I was booth rental, I wasn't running an llc, you know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, well that's again, something that I learned. I started my LLC after I, so I was working at the salon as a cutting director and I was working commission, but on the back end I was building out my own studio where I was gonna cut hair and do photography and things like that.

So that's when I developed my llc. It was probably 10 years ago now to have kind of my own little clubhouse and yeah, I would recommend anyone who does any sort of business to have an L L C and separate yourself from your business for financial reasons.

Chantel (Host): Looking back, do you feel like it was perfect timing in a way, or would you do it differently and be like, I would've definitely started it a few years sooner.

Whitney: I think I did it at the right time, because at that time I was pretty much an employee, but I was doing independent contractor stuff, as an educator. When I realized I was kind of like gonna go for it for myself, it, it's interesting, like I had a mentor and he told me, I feel like, you know, you're just waiting for something to happen for you.

And I was God, you couldn't be more wrong. Can't you see the late hours? I pour everything into this. It means everything to me. And people say, don't take it personal. And it's like, but it is personal cause it's my craft. It's my art. It's my, , my art is my soul.

So like, that hurt me so bad and I was kind of sitting around, kind of just waiting, like, , a little golden retriever being like, please pet me. Please notice me. Like please notice that I work hard and that I stay late. And then I, you know, go above and beyond. And it was something that kind of lit a fire under my ass.

The moment that that happened, I was like, I'm gonna start raising my hand and say that I want these opportunities and start demanding them for myself. And shortly after that, I worked with Baxter of California, which was at the time owned by L'Oreal. And I met this phenomenal woman who is still very important to me today.

Her name is Christine Schuster. She's the VP of Education for L'Oreal's Professional Product Division for the US. And she told me "You're already a leader, you just need to find your voice." And it changed my whole life. And so, also working at salons, I also understood, you know, as a business owner, of course they don't want me to be traveling all the time, and I understood that like that's not cool to be , oh, I need to travel for this thing, and then of course they're gonna miss out on business from it, right? So I kind of just realized as I started taking on more things, that I could be the architect of my own life, that I could build this life to be what I wanted to be.

It doesn't have to be other things that I've seen people do. At that time, I'd never seen anyone who had a private hair cutting studio that they did photography out of and I was like, well, why? Why can't I do that? You know, why couldn't I just make this clubhouse and I can do all my like weird little art things here and you know, hang out with my people here.

 I think just separating that too, provided some safety for me to know that if shit gets crazy and goes down that I'm protected from, from it affecting like my personal, financial aspect, also just to run a business, like a business I think is really important.

And it's also a valuable learning lesson too.

Chantel (Host): So you went from behind the chair in a salon to creating your own private area and seeing the majority of your clients out of your private space now. So you're behind the chair for yourself and you get to do your photography and it's so cool. So 

Whitney: I'm, I feel really fortunate. It's fun cuz I kind of made it a point when I decided I was gonna kick it in the ass and like get my stuff together. I was like, I don't know what I want this to be. And there's so many different avenues of our industry that I'm just gonna say yes to everything and then add all this abundance into my life and then I'll figure out what I don't like and sort it out.

And honestly that is advice that is saged that I would give to anyone is , just say yes to, to anything. And then honestly, you'll rise to the occasion cuz you'll make sure that you do.

Chantel (Host): You get to see what's not you real fast 

Whitney: Oh, absolutely.

Chantel (Host): like what feels good. It feels like extra amazing. And what doesn't, you're like, oh gosh, I have to let that go.

Whitney: Yeah, exactly.

Chantel (Host): Are there any business apps or platforms that you're using. That you find. I mean, cuz as hairdressers we're generally very visual and the business side can get neglected.

 I found that in my short time being a hairdresser, just watching professionals, , oh yeah, that's kind of, that is a thing where we fall short with the organization. Or I know there's oh gosh, I'm drawing a blank. It's not chicken, it's QuickBooks. I don't know why I said chicken.

I think there was one called chicken. But yeah. Do you use QuickBooks or any other apps that you feel really 

Whitney: I, 

Chantel (Host): help with the analog too?

Whitney: so for regular booking stuff and reminders for my clients and everything, I use Square, which, I really like them.

I've had a really good experience with them and I just like how everything is super streamlined and. Um, so I do use that. I do have QuickBooks. I mean, that is really complex and every year I promise myself I'm gonna be better about it, but then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna file an extension.

And then April comes around, I'm like, but I just did my taxes. You know what I mean? I can't possibly go through this again. Numbers, are you kidding me? So yeah, I have that stuff connected and I do , definitely have stuff going in there, but I do go through everything just because I like to see the details of everything.

So I do go through and I will make sure I go through every transaction that I made that year. But it's kind of nice because a lot of different stuff, you know, like with Amazon, which is a massive thing I use just in general in life, but also with my business and ordering things how you can keep track of invoices and you can keep track your totals for the year and what.

Categories they're considered in and things like that. But I 

will say a, 

Chantel (Host): for, oh, go ahead.

Sorry. Oh, you have the Amazon for business.

Whitney: Yeah.

It's

Chantel (Host): saw that

Whitney: yeah. Oh, it is a game changer. And I know there's so many cool things that you can do on there, with affiliate codes, , you could also attach, if you're an educator, you could totally go on there and say, these are the products that I use, tool-wise.

And you can get a commission off of it through through actually Amazon. You could have your own little storefront and then if people buy stuff through your link, eventually you'll get a kickback from it, which is kind of cool that they've done that now. But I also use, let's see.

So for anything let's say I'm doing a model call or You know, I just wanna put together a nice looking invoice or even , I wanna take my logo and add some stuff for a flyer or something. I love Canva

Canva's. Awesome. And you can collaborate with other people.

It's super affordable. There's so many things you could do on there. Like you could make like, you know, your Facebook cover thing and make it look like really cool. I do love that I use MailChimp for newsletters and things like that. Cuz they have really nice templates. You just throw everything in there.

I do my own website and I use Squarespace for that, which I love cuz the templates are so easy.

Chantel (Host): They're so beautiful,

Whitney: Yeah, I know. It's like, wow, it looks really good. People are like, you did your own website. I'm like, honestly, it's not as big of a flex as you think, but thank you. You know But I love that kind of stuff.

And then also recently I've been kind of like messing around with like AI stuff like chat, G B T, just to even do like research on different things, you know, like, so I've got some secret things I'm working on, but if I, there's like any like, industry research that I need or just like something I have a question on I am all about using that to to learn.

It's, it's really cool. I think too, like, I think a lot of people are intimidated by it, and I do think obviously there will be some professions that will have difficulty with it, but again, I think it's all about pivoting and I'd rather know about it than run away from it, you know? So I, I really, I find that like so interesting in regards to just like getting information about things.

Chantel (Host): Okay, I'm gonna fight not asking you about the secret stuff. I'm like,

I feel like I'm dozing for a hair product styling. I'm, I'm just feeling like a, I wanna ask if I can use this secret styling product that may or may not be happening. 

Whitney: Well I will tell you this, when this thing happens, I'll be sending you things for sure. Cuz I think it's right up your alley. Like, just what little, I've talked to you, I'm like, oh, you're gonna, you're gonna be about this. It's really cool. So I, and I'm like so excited to share it with people that are like,

Chantel (Host): Excited about 

hair and trying all the things. Yeah, 

Whitney: Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, I can't wait to nerd out on this with like my hair friends. So,

Chantel (Host): Could you share two traveling tips as a hair stylist that maybe like something you've learned, like something to bring just in case situations or something you've learned from someone else? When you're going to different places in the world.

Whitney: Okay, I have a, I have a few. When, if you are doing like, platform work, right? And you're like traveling, like for me, like when I go to Tokyo or something like that it's so like, of course you're like on the plane, you don't wanna like drink a ton of water. You might have a car of cocktails on the plane.

I don't know what you do, but you might. And then when you're traveling you're like so busy and then you don't, you don't have time to like constantly hydrate yourself and run to the bathroom, you know? And one of the things that I started doing before my trips, and this also like prevents me from getting sick, is I actually will get a hydration iv. And I'll just have someone come over. There's like, I don't, I guess it depends where you live, right? But they'll come over and they'll give me an IV and I'll get I'll get some stuff thrown in there for nausea so I don't get sick, like in cabs and stuff like that. And it will keep me really hydrated for like a week. Um, and that's really important because otherwise like that can mess with your sleep. It can mince with you, like, you know, mentally it's crazy. It's like you don't even realize how dehydrated you are until like you get hydrated and everything in your brain turns on. It's like, oh,

Chantel (Host): I'm alive.

Whitney: I should consider this more often. So I definitely recommend that. Another thing I think is really important, and this is also in regards to just like, you know, like the LLC thing, you know, like I think like it's really important to have a work credit card. And I say a credit card because again, it's like detached from like your bank account or anything like that, but also to make your. Your expenses work for you. So like, if you work for a company and, and like I, I would be like, oh, like don't worry, you guys can reimburse me for this flight. And then that way I can get all the points and then like, you can take some really great trips off of it. And then like, you know, like one of the cards that I love is the Amex Platinum, because I get my TSA pre-check paid for.

I get clear paid for, I get $15 worth of like ride share credits a month lounge access, which is like so amazing when you're traveling because it's like you just get, go in there and there's like all this great like, food for free and like it's comfy. And you know, especially if you're, you've been like on stage and stuff a bunch and you're just kind of like, need to decompress, like. I think to have that credit card is really important. And then additionally, like let's say, God forbid anything happens while you're traveling and you need to get a quick flight home, and it's like a crazy amount of money, but like you have no choice. It's like, thank God I have this with me. You know?

Chantel (Host): Have 

Whitney: So 

Chantel (Host): such. 

Whitney: that.

Chantel (Host): Thank you. That is a, those are wonderful pro tips. Thank you.

Whitney: Yeah, of course.

Chantel (Host): Let's see.

Do you have any Physical routines, mental health routines that help you stay grounded and centered that you feel you would share to your younger self. Maybe to start early if you could.

Whitney: yeah. Actually something that I've like started doing recently. So I know everybody's doing like the ice baths and the cold exposure and stuff like that. I am, I'm not trying to get into a bathtub full of ice, that's just not my vibe. But I did a little bit of like, research on it and like the guy that kind of started doing all of this, his name is Wim Hoff and he does like a, it's this crazy like breathing exercise and then you do like the cold exposure. But so the breathing exercise is, it's so crazy. It's like 11, 12 minutes. And it, the way that you feel like you can just conquer the world afterwards. Cause it just really gets your blood flowing. And then after that, when I do the cold shower, cause I just do the showers the way that just like, you just feel like invincible and pumped up and like, I'll do it in the middle of the day sometimes.

But the reason why I kind of started doing it is, is it wasn't like, oh, I want all these crazy health benefits. Although, like, those are cool too. I wanted to, especially like. After the pandemic, I, I kind of like went into like a rut, you know, because, you know, all this stuff was happening. I wasn't having inspiration.

We had a couple of like, phenomenal artists in the industry that passed away and, you know, some were some dear friends of mine. And I did it because I wanted to increase my willpower because I wanted to remind myself I can do hard things. Like I hate this, but I can do this. This is a breathing exercise.

I can do that. And I literally just have to try to be like 30 seconds, a minute, whatever. You just have to get to like your shiver factor to, for it to have like the benefits. But it was just more or less like, no, I'm going to do this. Like, I can push myself to do something that is so uncomfortable for me and I'll be better for it. And so I will say like, that is something that I think it's important to really continue to challenge yourself, whether it's like, Doing like a word find or something like that. Like things to keep your brain sharp and things to increase your willpower, I think are really important.

Chantel (Host): Love it. I totally agree. I, I I met him, I saw him

Whitney: Oh, you did? 

That's so cool. 

Chantel (Host): Oh my gosh. Like, how old am I of so long ago? And I, all I remember is his shorts, like my, my a d d kicked in and I couldn't take my hand. I my eyes, I'm like, where these shorts are so cool? I'm like, I don't know what I mean. Of course he was talking about like ice baths and his experience and what he does and how he has people come out and he takes like five people up at a time to this mountain.

But he, he kept talking and all, I was like just fixated on these shorts because it was kind of cold. And I'm like, this guy's like hardly wearing anything. But yeah. That's so cool. I 

Whitney: It's so crazy to see him do that stuff too, and like to see the people that do it.

Like the, like hiking, Like it basically in the swimsuit up a mountain. I'm like, oh my God, I could never, that could never be me, but like go off, you know?

Chantel (Host): Yeah. I feel like on the other side of the uncomfortable, there's this perception, you know, looking back, you're like, I did that. Even, even if it's like not something as, as big as like climbing a mountain it could just be like, kind of what you were saying, like these like milestones or something that you're avoiding cuz it feels difficult or you're like, oh, I don't know.

And then just not pushing yourself through it, but just leading yourself through it to the other side can be really rewarding.

Whitney: in giving yourself grace, like through it too, like, it's interesting cause like when I did the breathing, I originally was like, I'm not gonna be able to hold my breath for long. And like, I don't know what gave me that mindset. It was like, okay, like guess I had like, Quote unquote, sports asthma.

Like, I don't even know if I did. Right. And I have like allergies and stuff like that, but like, I don't know why that I had just like, already been like, I'm not gonna be able to do this very long. And like, through time of just like doing it, I was able to hold my breath for like longer and longer. And of course like that's cool in a survival type situation, right?

But like, it's also just like, oh, I can do this thing that's like difficult for humans and like, you know, I can hold it just a little bit longer, you know, and, and like do it longer and longer and longer. And it's like actually, like, it's kind of cool that, like, that I've developed this skillset that like, I wasn't expecting, but like, I'm also like kind of proud of it.

And it's not something that, you know, you're gonna go to a part and be like, guess what? Guess how long I can hold my breath for? You know? Or you might, I don't know. But I don't know. It's like cool to challenge yourself like that and to be like, oh, like this is something like I didn't even think was like a thing for me, but like, Like I, I guess I'm like, you know, healthier than I thought.

Chantel (Host): Yeah. That's so cute. That is definitely something I would just randomly blurt out in a conversation at the wrong time.

Whitney: Oh yeah. I'm like, my life is just like one big awkward moment and luckily, like some people find it endearing and I just go with it.

Chantel (Host): I wanted to ask, was there anything, this is like super talk about random, this is so random right now. Is there any food when you were in Tokyo that stood out where you're like, oh my gosh, that you tried for the first time, that just like left the biggest impression.

Whitney: Oh, well first off, it's just all so phenomenal. Just like, it's so crazy. Like I love sushi. I've had it so many different times, so many different places, but just the passion and the craft and that goes into it. Like I just. Just, it's just so cool to like sit at, you know, like the counter and just watch them make the food.

You know? It's, it's like, I don't know, it's, it is a lot like hairdressing in a lot of ways cuz like, I mean, a lot of the times they'll train for like a decade before they even get to like, you know, work you know, front of the line and stuff like that. So, like, I love like, watching that process. But like, as far as the food goes, I mean, all of it's pretty amazing.

I'm not gonna lie. Like, even just like the fruit there and just like, even the presentation, like when I was staying at this hotel, like, they'd have pastries in the morning and if that pastry was not perfect, it was not out, you know, which was so crazy. Like to see everything just be so perfect. But I will say, hmm, one thing that like I had that surprised me that I think a lot of people would maybe think was like strange here.

And it's not, I, I don't know like the, the name for it in Japan, but essentially it's like they take like white bread and they put whipped cream on it and cut up strawberries. It's like a little sandwich thing, and it sounds weird, but it's legit. It's pretty legit. Like I, I, I saw it like on a table, like on backstage of a show.

They had like gotten us a bunch of snacks and I was like, Hmm. I mean, whipped crew with strawberries like can't go wrong. And I was like, okay. This is really good.

Chantel (Host): That's

Whitney: the candy and stuff there. Candy is so good.

That's one thing I try to do when I travel. Like I try to get candy from different places and I like to bring it back from my family to try it.

Chantel (Host): Yeah. That's one thing I love about not being vegan anymore is that I, I don't have to feel like I wanna taste all the different things of different cultures if I 

Whitney: Yeah. 

Chantel (Host): So

Whitney: Because I mean, even just as like vegetarian, like, and I do like eat fish. So I guess I'm technically pescatarian, but it is difficult when you travel. Like there's so many times I end up at a restaurant and they'd be like, no, no. They have options. And it's like, oh, cool things for this house salad and this basket of french fries, I guess.

You know, like Cool.

Chantel (Host): I, I think I should let you go. This has been great. I mean, I can just like keep

Whitney: I mean, I'm down, like honestly, I'm free if there's anything else you want to ask, like I'm down.

Chantel (Host): you shared some pro tips that were just awesome and I think I think I had a funny, I did have a question about education, but did you f do you feel like taking the, were there any, has there been any education classes that you feel really like changed the game for you and added, I mean yeah, that's what I'm asking.

Or if it was really just your own, you know, experience cutting hair that you felt the most growth from.

Whitney: I think what I felt the most growth from would be so when I started working with my mentor the shop that I worked at, there was the brand of the shop, but then they also had a product line, well, the product line was suffering and so they ended up getting rid of the shop essentially to support the product line. So they closed that shop and, and myself and a couple other people as well as my mentor decided to go work someplace else. And with that being said, there wasn't as much time to do my training. Cuz I will say like, that was one thing that was interesting because when I started my training with him he actually would never hire people who had industry experience.

He only wanted people straight outta school because they didn't have like, hard habits to break.

Chantel (Host): Yeah.

Whitney: And it's actually like kind of a, a longer story, but I'll try to shorten it. I decided that I wanted to work for him once I, I found out a, a little bit more about him and I went in there and he's like, oh yeah, we are like doing interviews or whatever.

And he like handed me this DVD and he was like, come back and do this haircut tomorrow. And I had just moved here and I was like, Oh, okay. So like, I didn't have, like, I didn't know a lot of dudes here to do a haircut. And then on top of it, like, it was like a blade only, like fade, like bald fade. And I was like, cool, I've never done this before. And so I was able to find like some guy off like Facebook through like someone, and I went back and I did that haircut and he was like, oh, you know, you did, you did really good. You know, like we definitely you know, might be interested, but you know, you do have industry experience ideally, you know, we wouldn't have that.

And then he was like, we still got a couple other people to interview. And I ended up just cutting him off and I was like, listen, I've been coming here for a while, so I know what I like and what I don't like. You don't have to worry about me changing my mind or like wanting a different experience and I can promise you that if you hire me today, I'm gonna work my ass off for you.

And he was like, God, I didn't wanna do this, but I'm gonna hire you today. And I remember I went out to my car and I like cried because I knew it was gonna change my life.

But then when, you know, I did work for him, like I had to take everything I thought I knew and threw it away. Like I was purely an assistant and working the front desk.

And I worked like, I mean, there were some weeks that it was like damn near 70 hours. I mean, it was a long, a long situation. But I respected him and I knew that I could learn a lot from him. And then when he ended up selling that space my, my training kind of got messed with because, you know, I was towards the end of my training, but I wasn't quite, you know, finishing it.

And I wanted to officially finish it and not be like, rushed into like having to cut hair because like, I didn't know if I was ready, you know, even though I had for so long. But it was like a whole different way of hair cutting.

And so actually what I started to do Was like, okay. Like I would start to take pictures of my work after I would do the haircut, and then I would wait until like at night and I would look through those pictures and be like, okay, next time I'm gonna do this, this, and this different.

And that's actually how I got into, into photography is that it's like, I would take pictures of my work and it was like a good, honest, like, I can't deny this like moment, you know, like, okay, like see, like I should have taken the fight up how you're here. It would've balanced this better. And so like, that was kind of how I started like assessing my work was by having this like, proof and like going through it at night and like learning and getting better and like, just making sure I was like really refining that design eye.

And I will say like that kind of honesty with yourself as an artist, it's, it's kind of like, you know, listening to yourself talk. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, this is so cringe, but like I need to do this kind of a thing. And I will say like that I've learned. So much from that, because even now, like when I shoot my own work and do editorial work because I, I have a nice camera, but I actually don't, I wouldn't consider myself a photographer because I don't actually know how to use it.

Right. I just like keep it on a little green square and hope for the best shooting on vibes only. I don't really know how to like edit or anything like that. I just can kind of like play with the, the contrast and highlights and stuff like that, but I have to make the hair perfect when I take a picture because I don't know how to edit it.

And it's so interesting after like years of doing that, and then I'll work with like a group or something and how many hairstylists will just sit and rely on like someone fixing it in post. It's like, it's one of those things, it's like you just, it keeps you honest to have this like proof, like you can't deny this, you know?

So it's like, yeah, like. From like being honest about like, okay, where my skillset was as a hairdresser, but now like, also as like taking pictures of it is like, okay, like I have to make the haircut perfect before I take a picture of it because I don't know how to make it. I know how to fake it. Right. And then seeing people who get so busy faking it that they pretend, you know that they made it, they forget to go back and make it.

So, I don't know. 

I think it's 

important 

to just be honest with yourself. 

Chantel (Host): yeah. And it's your own it's like your own preference though, cuz nobody's, and I, I have that too, so it's really cool. No one's over there like telling you this needs to be better. It's your own head for your own self and like, just how it, how you wanna present to the world.

But it's like your work, you know? That's, I love it.

Whitney: And I think that like if you are, because there is something to be said about like, Because I do work alone, which like, I do love, but like nobody ever's like, man, that haircut was amazing. You're killing it. It's like, am I, am I killing it? Like, am I still good? Is this still good? And then you take a picture and like you'll be like, damn, still got it.

You know, like Pat on the back. That was great. You know, like it's just cool to also just like track your progression as an artist, I think too. Or like, these are the things that I was into this year. You know, I was into this style and like, you know, I like to really like high gloss, like pomade product or, you know, it's just like interesting to keep a track of that.

And I always tell people, like, shoot a collection every year of some sort just to like, just to have it, you know, just to like know, like, it's like kind of like having a mood board in a way.

I 

don't know. It's, I just think it's really important to track that, like, because those moments when you like. As an artist, feel insecure about your art, or like, well, maybe I'm not that good, or like, am I just doing the same old stuff?

It's like, you have this proof that's like, no, you're not. You're getting better. You know, you do different things. You would've never been able to do that haircut three years ago. You know, like just to give yourself that grace too.

Chantel (Host): I love challenging myself. I would love to ask you our last question about your tools. I think that was the first engagement we had where I'm like, these shears are amazing.

Whitney: Oh,

Chantel (Host): do I get them? I, I found early on that having really good tools, just like having your foundation set is, is just. It feels different.

It helps you be your best. And when you're, you know, your foundation, like for example, I know in school, like they don't always, if you got lucky, you have instructors that taught you how to not cut yourself and really starting off slow. And the opposite side is people who are like, you gotta get the haircut done.

And they completely miss the little foundation of cutting and being very slow. And how if you start there, you'll eventually get faster, but if you dive into being fast, you're gonna end up hurting yourself. And I found, I invested in some shears that were a little bit above average. The first, the second time I went to school.

And I, I love them and it, it felt like I. My experience was just so much better. And I know people, they, you know, they'll say like, well, you know, these thousand dollars shears, are they really doing the work? And I've, my answer has always been, yes.

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Chantel (Host): I, I've always felt the difference. It wasn't just like posh, you know, it was like, no, these are really helping me be a better hairdresser.

And just having that, that sharpness. So knowing that I want a pair and I have small hands, I, I don't know that I noticed crossover until like last week. I think I was like really focused on antivirus. Could you, could you gimme a, a quick, like, if I have to start, I'm gonna pick, I'm say I'm just gonna pick one pair starting with a crossover or antivirus.

Whitney: so okay, so a little bit about the background of that is so crossover was the first version of this scissor that I launched. I worked on it probably for over three years. It really has been like a labor of love and I wanted to create a scissor that like for where people, you know, who do like barbering or like a lot of scissor overcome, the thing of it is, is like you need, I would recommend anywhere like over, you know, a six inch blade or longer to cover more space, right?

But the problem is, is it becomes heavy and then it's clunky and that's how people get lines. You can't do as nice as a fluid motion with your scissor. So that's kind of, you know, I started like experimenting with them, with Ms. Tani with lighter steel and then changing where the tension screw was to provide a little bit more balance so it wasn't heavier on the back end.

And then also creating, you know, honestly the first, so it was the first ever scissor line in history that. Has ever been a woman's scissor line which is insane when you think about like, primarily the hair industry,

like is a lot of women and has traditionally been a lot of women and there's no scissor, there's no scissors that been made by a woman ever, you know, and then on top of it, it was like the first ever scissor line made for biological, you know, male or, and female hands, like quote unquote male or female.

But like there's a smaller one and there's like a bigger one. And it's not just that the size of the finger holes are different, it's the ergonomics of it as well. So yeah, it's also the first upper scissor to have like those two options. So we definitely made history with that, which was insane. And so that's the initial like ground layer of crossover and then the next level of that, which was really cool.

It's, it's the same scissor, but essentially what we did is we added this coating on it during covid. And so what's really cool about antivirus is it is a coating that actually rejects coronavirus. So you don't have to like destroy, some people will just throw their scissors in some Barbacide, which gives me anxiety to even see, you know, cause it's like, oh man, it's such a good tool.

You know, like, don't do that. So that's what's really cool about it. Like, yes, of course I would definitely recommend always no matter what sanitizing your tools, but it's really cool that it has, and that's the first time anyone's ever made a coding like that. But I will say I'm currently working on a new one and kind of the inspiration around it, I would say is, I think it's actually like, I'm so excited about it because just like a little lil, I can't talk too much about it, but I do wanna say like, one thing that I.

Like, you know, you were saying about like the difference of like a nicer scissor and stuff like that, and how, like, I do find, like, a lot of people do this. They're like, oh, I'm gonna get new workout clothes. So I feel like compelled to work out, you know?

Chantel (Host): Yeah.

Whitney: But I found that during the pandemic, that more than anything people were just like looking for inspiration.

And so the design of this tool essentially is like a way of like honoring our life before, and then like the rebirth of our new life and incorporating a Japanese philosophy and art form called Kintsugi. And so essentially what that is, let's say you have a pot and it shatters, not shatters, but it breaks and they reseal it with this gold adhesive essentially.

And the idea behind it is now the pot is more beautiful and it's stronger for having its quote quote flaws. And so I kind of wanted to incorporate that into, I mean, what a shame if we're not changed by what we just went through, right? But also to create a scissor that's so beautiful that it compels the artist to want to create, instead of seeking out inspiration, which of course you should always do, but to have something that's beautiful and that is solid and works so well that it makes you want to create, I think is a really interesting idea. I love the idea of your tools in a sense, being your muse, really. And so that's kind of the philosophy behind this, this new one. I'm really excited about it. I'm launching it in Tokyo on stage at Mizitani a hundred and second anniversary event in November. So definitely keep your eyes peeled for that because.

I will say, when I was pitching the idea to the designer that I work with primarily, who is his name's , he's amazing. And his his background was actually like creating vehicles for Toyota. So I just think that's like really

cool. But I told him, I was like, I want to create like the most beautiful scissor that's ever been made. And when he sent back what he had been working on, I felt so seen. Cuz he took that and he made like the most beautiful scissor I've ever seen. And it's not even done yet. We're still making alterations on it. But yeah, it'll, it, but again, it's, it's another variation of crossover. So that's gonna be more of like an art series scissor. And then after that I plan on making a more affordable scissor for like students, 

Chantel (Host): So

cool. Do you are you anticipating having like ambassadors for your share line 

Whitney: Oh, I mean, like, like that's the thing that's kind of cool is like, so Mizutani is in like 40 different countries and like we have educators all over, you know, and like they'll use like various scissors. So like, you know, essentially like they are ambassadors in a way. And then also like myself, but I would love to, like, I, I think I, I'd love to continue to kind of build this community about, around people that have gotten the scissor and like showcase their work and how they use it.

Because I like,

I don't want it to just be like, just platform artists, you know what I mean? Like, I want it to be like, tell me how you use it. You know, like, oh, I didn't even think about using it that way because I think like, you know, like. We're the sum of everyone else's ideas and arts and, and stuff like that.

Just some people end up getting on a stage and talking about it, but that doesn't mean that they don't learn from the people that, you know, they're watching cut on a mannequin at their you know, at a classes they're teaching in a salon, you know, at a hands-on class. Like, I learned stuff from people all the time, you know?

So I think like, really just, I think going back like to the grassroots and the people who are like actually doing work in a, in a salon or a barbershop and just you know, talking to them about how they, they use their scissor and kind of like what it means to them.

Chantel (Host): I'm so excited for you.

Whitney: Thank you. That means so much. Thank you.

Chantel (Host): That sounds really cool. And I know there's just so much that goes into product design and when it's coming from your heart, it's, it's like you're definitely giving you're giving birth to these things in the world and it's, it's very exciting. So,

Whitney: Thank you. Yeah, it's so true. It's just like, I don't know, it's, it's like, it's very similar to, you know, like doing like a really cool haircut. You know? It's like, and that's another reason why I take pictures of stuff. Cause I'm like, I just wanna freeze it in time forever. Like, I can keep this, I don't know what you're gonna do with this when you leave.

Like, I don't know what kind of products you're gonna end up like using of your wife's and like, make this look weird. But like in this moment it looks really good and I feel super good about this. I feel like it's kind of the same with like all of this stuff, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a labor of love and I think it's like giving. I think it's like also like me giving back to the people that have like supported me so much cuz I wouldn't have had the opportunity to even create this stuff if it wasn't for the people that like made me feel like I was capable of creating something that would make a difference.

Chantel (Host): Yeah. The people seen you.

Whitney: Yeah.

Chantel (Host): it. 

Whitney: Yeah.

Chantel (Host): It was such a treat talking to you today. Thank you so much for your 

Whitney: Oh my God. Thank you. 

Chantel (Host): and your vulnerability. I'm gonna hit the stop button and we're gonna stay on and I'm gonna.